I use both Topo 24k Sw and CN. I also use Topo 100k.I have seen several instances where roads are missing from Topo 24k that show up on Topo 100k and vice versa.I can't think of any specific examples, but I wouldn't be surprised if a few roads missing from Topo 24k show up on CN.CN is my primary trip planning resource. If you can at all afford it, I would recommend buying it.Two other big resources I use are Benchmark paper maps and when all else fails Google Earth.Whenever I plan a trip I always check the roads out on Google Earth to make sure they exist.But it is also important to find out land ownership. Minor roads thru private land are rarely open.
I use various BLM maps for this. Click to expand.I believe my old unit had the Road & Rec. Map on it when purchased. Showed things of interest some trails and most dirt roads. However how can you find a copy of this on CD or?The purchase of CN would not take away my lunch money. Just see no reason to purchase it unless it will do a better job of showing available roadways.
But it seems that each program is using somewhat different mapping systems.Always consult the Benchmark maps. However when attempting to set a route on computer via a map program then transfer to GPS there are several dead-ends. Although Benchmark or Google may show the roadway continuing.A good example. BLM managed, Harquahala Peak Observatory, near Aguila AZ.
Shows nothing, Benchmark shows a roadway but not the correct starting point. However my old mapping system would take you all the way to the top! Even showing two foot-trails leading down the North side of the Mtn.Don't understand. All the confusion.Really do not mind the TOPO lines as it also names points of interest, peaks, mtn ranges, rivers, some mines, water tanks, etc.So I guess I need to get a CN and see what it shows or does not show as the case may be.
Click to expand.While I haven't explored the area, in the past I have been by it and noted the 'Observatory' location.It is true that the AZ Gazetteer shows an route from Eagle Eye Rd. North toward Harquahala Mt which was the site of an observatory of some type which as I remember is abandoned. (Looked it up, abandoned in 1925).An old version of R&R does show the route as an unnamed road of about 7 miles in length.The same route in an old version of 100k TOPO shows the route ending at the site of the Monterey Mine, also unnamed and 3 miles long.My somewhat old CN 2011 shows the 'Harquahala Mt. Length being 1 mile.Obviously my maps all are using a different source for the road data which for CN doesn't surprise me at all however I did expect the TOPO and Gazetteer to more closely agree based on prior experience.What does this say about the maps in question? Perhaps not a lot, because the route is a remote, old route up a mountain to an abandoned site (E of the summit is all wilderness). The BLM makes it sound like a steep rough 4X4 or OHV route.From a related website.
ROAD TO HARQUAHALA OBSERVATORYThe road to the top is approximately 10.8 miles of rough gravel road once you leave the blacktop road. Elevation gain in that distance is about 3,360’. Kevin Hart and I made it to the top in 50 minutes with his Wrangler Jeep. The road is definitely a four wheel drive road moderately difficult on April 7, 2008 when we went to the top. However weather conditions and maintenance would change this rating to very difficult in one storm.
Please be advised and proceed with caution. The day we were there is was extremely cold with a high wind; take a jacket and warm clothing just in case you encounter similar conditions.mefadv have you traveled this route? What's on the ground?Bruce.
Click to expand.Here is what that area looks like in CNNA 2013.4. I dropped waypoint flags in the approximate spots of your coordinates. (I couldn't figure out how to make BaseCamp go to the precise spots). I do not have any topos of that area that I can see in BaseCamp.Here is a view zoomed way in on the lower right of what is shown above. I have a measurement shown, as well.To post an image in the forums here, you have to put the image up online somewhere, copy the location, then paste that location into the text box that comes up when you click the icon for inserting an image when making a post. Now that you have got the road shown on Basecamp, you could put a couple of waypoints on it or draw a route on it and use the ViewGoogle Earth command to see what is actually on the ground there.On an earlier subject. We are having good luck converting Travel Management MVUM maps to Custom Maps and viewing them in Basecamp and even downloading them to our Montanas and using them on rides.I say 'we' because a co-rider has done nearly all the work.If the map is available online he does a screen grab and then uses Mapsource/Basecamp and Google Earth to get it georeferenced properly and create a KMZ file.
The KMZ file can be loaded into Basecamp as a custom map.If only a paper version is available, we scan it and then georeference it. I have done lots of Benchmark map pages this way too.
Here is what that area looks like in CNNA 2013.4. I dropped waypoint flags in the approximate spots of your coordinates. (I couldn't figure out how to make BaseCamp go to the precise spots). I do not have any topos of that area that I can see in BaseCamp.Here is a view zoomed way in on the lower right of what is shown above. I have a measurement shown, as well.To post an image in the forums here, you have to put the image up online somewhere, copy the location, then paste that location into the text box that comes up when you click the icon for inserting an image when making a post. Click to expand.When I georeference I usually create a few routes on any paved or major roads in Mapsource or Basecamp and then use ViewGoogle Earth. In Google Earth I then load in the map jpg file using the Add?
Command.The routes need to span as much of the map as possible and should get the corners. The routes also need to be on roads that show up well in the map image.I then shift and scale the map image so the roads in the map overlay the route.
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This can be tedious. And I can almost never get it perfect all over the image.If the map happens to contain some squarish boundaries (forest, National Park, etc) it works well to draw the 'routes' along these boundaries with Direct Routing.I sometimes have to rotate the image a little, but this usually causes more problems than it fixes.The save the result as a kmz file and load it into Basecamp. While I haven't explored the area, in the past I have been by it and noted the 'Observatory' location.It is true that the AZ Gazetteer shows an route from Eagle Eye Rd. North toward Harquahala Mt which was the site of an observatory of some type which as I remember is abandoned.
(Looked it up, abandoned in 1925).An old version of R&R does show the route as an unnamed road of about 7 miles in length.The same route in an old version of 100k TOPO shows the route ending at the site of the Monterey Mine, also unnamed and 3 miles long.My somewhat old CN 2011 shows the 'Harquahala Mt. Length being 1 mile.Obviously my maps all are using a different source for the road data which for CN doesn't surprise me at all however I did expect the TOPO and Gazetteer to more closely agree based on prior experience.What does this say about the maps in question? Perhaps not a lot, because the route is a remote, old route up a mountain to an abandoned site (E of the summit is all wilderness).
The BLM makes it sound like a steep rough 4X4 or OHV route.From a related website. ROAD TO HARQUAHALA OBSERVATORYThe road to the top is approximately 10.8 miles of rough gravel road once you leave the blacktop road. Elevation gain in that distance is about 3,360. Kevin Hart and I made it to the top in 50 minutes with his Wrangler Jeep. The road is definitely a four wheel drive road moderately difficult on April 7, 2008 when we went to the top.
However weather conditions and maintenance would change this rating to very difficult in one storm. Please be advised and proceed with caution. The day we were there is was extremely cold with a high wind; take a jacket and warm clothing just in case you encounter similar conditions.mefadv have you traveled this route? What's on the ground?Bruce. Click to expand. I have been there many times.
Within the past 25 years.The route has been improved over the years as there is now a C.A.P. Tower at the top with a helo-pad. They had to move some very big equipment up this road for this construction. So you can imagine it was improved, with one of the more difficult inclines being concreted.However the elevation change the final 5 miles causes many washoutsevery summer.
The winter freezes cause frequent rock slides. I guess what I'm saying is that the condition of the read changes quickly.One trip I remember a 4x4 pickup was sitting at the top with a flat. Seems he had ripped a sidewall on the way up and put on his spare. Then ran a cell-phone size rock through another at the top.
He had cell service but AAA or OnStar was no help. So we called a tire dealer in Wickenburg and he rescued him with his Jeep, for a few $$$ I'm sure.I have never had to turn around on the trip up but close.
Those 'big rock' slides can be tough to deal with.:eek1. Thanks for the report.As to the maps I always have R&R, TOPO 100k, and CN loaded and switch between them frequently. All are slightly different but it would be impossible to say one has better road/route detail over the other as it varies. In my experience the road detail of R&R and CN is similar with CN having more road names, newer data and is auto-routing.
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R&R shows more water detail, creeks even dry ones go a long way to relating what is on the screen with what you see around you. MY TOPO 100k is clearly the oldest road data and few roads shown are named which can be a big negative.Bruce.
A friend has the 24K TOPO for the Southwest on DVD, no longer available.He got a new laptop that has Windows 10 installed.He had problems installing the 24K TOPO so asked for help.Initially, we were prompted to install the.net framework before the TOPO install could proceed. We clicked 'Next' to begin.
The problem is, the license agreement dialog is hidden. We can use the Alt-Tab or Windows key-Tab keystroke functions to cycle through open windows. When we do, we can clearly see the license agreement dialog window. But when we try to select it, the previous dialog with the 'Next' option appears.
We were unable to agree to the license terms and install.net framework.I tried going to and downloading/installing.net 4.7.2. But when we tried to install the TOPO again we had the same problem. I have Windows 10 on this desktop and had no problem installing the 24K TOPO from my DVD.If anyone has any idea how to overcome this so we can install his TOPO, I would be grateful for an assist. It's been a day or two since we tried this.
Somewhere in the research I did later I thought I may have seen something about it requiring.net 3.5. It seemed strange to me that version 4.7.2 would not have been a 'roll up' of previous versions updated to the most current version. But what do I know, I'm not a programmer!I'll try to reach him tomorrow and see if version 3.5 will help.Actually, I wondered if it was the.net framework since that dialog box was obscured. I wondered if it may be a display setting. There are too many things it COULD be.
There's always booting into SAFE mode and trying the install also. I hoped someone here would know. I usually have MUCH better luck here than with Garmin! But if push comes to shove.Thanks for the ideas! Update 10 Jan 2019We re-started the (WinX) system in safe mode and tried installing the 24K TOPO.
We managed to get TO the License agreement dialog in Safe Mode so I will GUESS the problem was a video driver. However, the backup disc we were using had an unknown (read on). When that failed -.NET still not installed - we rebooted normally and tried installing.NET framework version 3.5. When this installed we re-tried and (now) did not see the.NET dialog. It proceeded straight to map install. This is where we got a bad sector message. Since this was a backup disc, we'll retry from another backup.
There were no noticeable marks on the disc.We DID however, manage a good installation of the Garmin 100K TOPO. So, hopefully, we've resolved the issue by installing.NET Framework version 3.5. If all ealse fails, we'll install the 24K TOPO from a USB drive. 30 Aug 2019 - update'Experience is a dear teacher, but only a fool learns' - Benjamin Franklin, paraphrasedWhen I had problem installing the 24K TOPO on this desktop and Garmin's reply to replacing the media was 'buy it again', I made an ISO image.When helping someone install the 24K TOPO on a WinX system and we had the problem installing the.NET framework component, I copied all the files from my DVD to a folder on one of my network drives.A couple of days ago I decided to cave and replaced Win7 with WinX on my notebook (laptop). After the OS and Virus protection were installed I installed Basecamp - with the normal file associations problem. That's an easy fix - more later.I tried to install the 24K TOPO and there it was again. The problem where it wanted to install the.NET framework but hid the dialog box with the license acknowledgement box behind the main installation dialog box.
It started to come back to me. THIS time, I went to the folder where the 24K TOPO files reside on my network drive. One of the sub-folders there is a NET folder. In that folder there is an installer for the.NET framework. I ASSUME the 24K TOPO installer runs that when a system is detected that needs it.
I just ran it by double clicking it. It fetched some things from the www and completed rather quickly with no problems. THEN, when I re-ran the 24K TOPO installer on the notebook, it found the 'NET framework it likes and carried on with the rest of the install. Old fools CAN learn.WinX and file associations. I've either installed or watched several others install Basecamp on winX systems. After Basecamp is up and running when they click on a GDB or GPX file the OS does not know to open the file with Basecamp and chokes. Neither file extension is associated with Basecamp during the Basecamp installation.
An easy way to correct this is to right click on one of the files, like a GPX file and select Properties. At the top of the Properties dialog is a line that begins: Open with. That SHOULD show Basecamp Application, but has not on the WinX installatioons I've done/seen. The simple solution is to click the Change button next to it. Basecamp has never been shown on the next dialog so I've had to click on More apps, then scroll to the bottom of that dialog box and click on Look for another app on this PC. That opens a Windows Explorer dialog box where you can navigate to C:Program Files (x86)GarminBaseCamp where you will find basecamp.exe.
Click on that and OK your way out. Then, the next time you double click a GPX file it will open with Basecamp.
Same process for a GDB file.For anyone who HAS the old 24K TOPOs on DVD this may be useful. But since Garmin no longer sells the maps on DVD it may have limited use. I have not seen an update for the US Southwest 24K TOPOs since i bought my DVD.
So I am clinging to my copy because, for me, it is still very useful.